Questions About David Myatt and The Order of Nine Angles

April the first seems a fitting time for this interview! What is your opinion regarding Myatt’s aims? Is he a Muslim? Or a Nazi? An Occultist? Or all of them?

To begin, I must make it clear that in talking about Myatt I am presenting here my own views, my own opinions, and that is all. I am not making any kind of “official” comment about Myatt, nor am I speaking for him or on his behalf.

My view regarding the life and work of David Myatt is that Julie Wright’s assessment, given in her essay Myatt: A Sinister Life, is partially correct. This is that Myatt is the archetypal Trickster – or to be more exact, the archetypal Mage. That is, he has been following a certain esoteric Way, or Occult Path, which Way he has significantly extended as he has ventured along it, and that his diverse experiences, and roles, have been part of this Promethean quest. This, of course, includes both his role as a fanatical National Socialist, and his role as a radical Islamist, preaching Jihad.

Where I differ from her assessment is regarding the goal, the aim, that Myatt has pursued. She – like some others who have studied Myatt’s life and works – opines that his aim is Chaos, the destabilization of the present system (The Old Order; the Old Aeon) as a prelude to the creation of something new which she, and some others, suggest is some sort of Dark Imperium, some kind of sinister society, or a National Socialist society or State. But, in my judgment his aim has been threefold. Firstly, to experience, and learn, and from this experience and learning to create, to refine, to move toward personal Wisdom. Second, to lead and guide – through his writings, the images of himself he has created, and his personal teaching – a few individuals along the esoteric Way he has been following, so that they also may experience, and learn, and perchance be inspired to create and develop, to evolve, themselves. Third, to – in esoteric terms – presence certain forces, or energies, and so bring about now and in the future certain causal changes, with some of these changes being disruptive, when viewed in the conventional sense, and most of them being creative in the sense that they provoke, or cause, or can provoke or cause, our evolution, as beings, with some of these changes (and “events”) being a test, or tests, to be overcome, and with some being manifestations, or more correctly, examples, to extend our understanding, and undo our prejudices. A few represent genuine “culling”. There is genuine Wisdom, here, in such things.

Thus – and to confuse those still in thrall to Old Aeon modes – the esoteric is the key to understanding Myatt. But it is an esoteric Way devoid of the conventional labels that many have sought to attach to the Way he has been following, for he has gone far beyond these labels, so far, in truth, that he created a new Way, imbued with the very essence of the acausal. The conventional labels, such as “the satanic” – applied by journalists and those who still have to think, and be, in such outmoded terms and ways – have been transcended. They are no longer necessary, nor can they correctly describe what-is.

The Way is highly individualistic – that is anarchic, in the correct sense of that term – in that it seeks to create, and develop unique individuals who are no longer in thrall to their own desires, their own unconscious, no longer in thrall to archetypes, or to ideas, forms, and abstractions, past and present, and who know governments, of whatever so called political persuasion, and nation-States, for the impersonal inhuman, anti-evolutionary, unfree, tyrannies they are or will become.

In the process of his quest, Myatt has made conscious – explicated in a rational way – those things which make us human and which possess the potential to evolve us further, and such evolution, of the individual, is the essence of his Way. That is, he has returned genuine freedom to us, explaining that real freedom involves us being responsible for ourselves, and having not only the resourcefulness, the intelligence, to survive, but also the vision – the empathy – which is the beginning of genuine personal honor and the essence of our very humanity. This arises from practical experience – from the practical synthesis of opposites.

Naturally, those tied to the Old Aeon ways of thinking, and of being, will assume or believe there is a dichotomy here. But, of course, they are incorrect – because the very terms of their thinking are flawed. In the same way, one might argue – with justification – that the ONA is, and is not, a Sinister organization, and is, and is not, an Order.

Thus, Myatt has championed Islam – and especially Jihad – to counter-balance the hubris, the tyranny, of the modern West with its inhuman abstractions, its hypocrisy, its State-sanctioned terror, its nation-States, its plebeian materialistic dishonorable un-numinous ethos, sensing or knowing the threat that radical poses to this tyrannical, almost world-embracing, but most certainly anti-evolutionary, order. Thus, he has championed National Socialism over and above the insipid so called liberal democracy which festers in the body-politic of the West, which liberal democracy is undoing the work of Nature and championing the common, the plebeian, as opposed to the best, as opposed to excellence. Thus, he has championed an esoteric Way which is dark, sinister, dangerous and practical and which requires self-discipline, to counter the mumblings of the wishy-washy white-light wiccan-type phantasists, and to counter the fake Satanists. Thus, he has championed the ethic of personal honor – of the duel – to balance the insistence by our tyrannical States that their impersonal laws and their bullying Police forces are “the law” and represent “true justice”. Thus, he has championed the empathy of The Numinous Way to counter-balance the subsuming ethos of material progress and world-wide destructive capitalist development. And so on, et cetera. This is a genuine Mage, at work, and at play.

But isn’t Islam – with its multi-racialism – opposed to the idea of race, of the folk, that National Socialism asserts, and hasn’t this championing of Islam, by Myatt, upset many of his NS supporters to the extent that they have called him a traitor?

What we have to consider here are three things. First, the long term view, and second, the truth that we no longer need the old nation-States, and should not cling on to them. Rather, we should welcome their passing, their ending, and prepare for, and enable, what can arise from this ending, this passing. Third, those who uphold and believe in the concept of race, of the folk, should ask themselves – are the majority of their race, their folk, as they now are, worth saving, fighting for, dying for, spending time in prison for? Or should they instead be thinking about quality, not quantity; about values, inner qualities, not outer appearance?

The long term view is that of the next hundred, two hundred years, the next thousand years. It is my opinion that for those who uphold and believe in the concept of race, of the folk, Reichsfolk – and orgainzations like it or inspired by it – have the correct perspective and understanding, working as they are slowly, to preserve what is valuable and ready as they are to forget about what is not valuable, such as artificial national borders and the Old Aeon idea of a nation-State.

What is needed – as Reichsfolk, following Myatt, suggests – is an inner revolution, a revolution of values, toward honor, empathy and genuine freedom, and then an outer revolution, new communities, of those who are already honorable and aware. For a folk to survive, prosper, and be the genesis of future evolution toward the stars, we do not need vast numbers – only the best, and around one hundred thousand people of the same folk, or even less. Thus, those who talk, write, about the doom of the “White” race are just talking nonsense. It is honorable Aryans that they require; small folk communities, more correctly, tribes, of around twenty or thirty thousand or much less; not vast nations of millions. It is such tribes which are the future.

Also, I do not believe Myatt cares what other people think or say or write about him – he goes his own way, as individualistic geniuses do. He has championed Islam, in my view, for good reasons – to continue to do practical battle with the real enemy, with those anti-evolutionary forces which all genuine esoteric seekers are opposed to, whether they consciously understand this or not. Who knows whether he will continue that role? If he deems it necessary, he will; otherwise, he will not.

I have noticed many attempts, recently, to debunk Myatt and his work; to call into question his experiences; his writings; his talents. For instance, some people are questioning whether he really did write some Greek translations; or, if he did, did he just plagiarize them. Some people have gone so far as to suggest that Myatt may not even know Greek, is a self-publicist, was never a monk or that he has some kind of vivid phantasy life, and lives in a phantasy world of his own. What is your opinion?

I do believe some people are envious, and even jealous. Some are just petty, probably vindictive, individuals who for a moment or so may get some sense of actually living – of being alive – by making such claims about someone they do not know. Others, quite simply, are arrogant vain buffoons puffed up with their own self-importance.

Some of those saying, writing, such things or making such claims about Myatt have a hidden agenda – often a political one. That is, they are opposed to either what they regard or assume are his political views or his religious, Islamist, views. Some people with their own agenda have also been trying to discredit Myatt for years. As for me, I feel that he will be more highly regarded, and correctly understood, in future decades; that it will take fifty or possibly even a hundred years or so for his life and works to be fully understood and appreciated, esoterically and exoterically.

Often, those making such claims about him have rushed to pen forth, or speak forth, their views, their opinions, based on little knowledge, little research, and often such people are dishonorable anyway, so their opinions such as they are are worthless, the mere babbling of barbarians. How many of those who make such comments have read all his works? His poetry, for instance; his Greek translations; his private letters; his early and later NS writings; his writings about The Numinous Way, and so on. The Internet has many things to answer for, since it enables the gushing forth of immediate often prejudiced opinions which can be read by other gushers, world-wide, as it enables the transmission of personal prejudice and ill informed opinion. In this sense, it can stifle real critical thinking; stifle the judgment that slowly arises from self experience and self insight. It enables the worst type of sleazy, tabloid journalism and can make anyone into a sleazy dishonorable journalist.

We can expect much more character assassination, of Myatt, by such people, but there will always be a few who will take the trouble to discover stuff for themselves; a few who will actually think for themselves and who will not immediately form some opinion based on little knowledge or based on someone else’s prejudiced views.

How do you think he will be – or should be – regarded in a hundred years time?

As a genuine Mage – a GrandMaster of the Left Hand Path – who has dared to genuinely defy and who has dared to undertake genuine diverse practical experiences and rôles, lasting many years. He makes the charlatans – the Laveys, the Aquinos, the Crowleys – look like charlatans.

For instance, what did Crowley actually do, apart from pose, indulge himself and manufacture a bastard system based firmly on Old Aeon abstractions, on dead archetypal forms, and on the Magian teachings and Magian ideas of the Golden Dawn? What did Lavey actually do, apart from pose, indulge himself and manufacture a bastard system based firmly on Old Aeon abstractions, on dead archetypal forms, and on the Magian system of “demonology”? The same applies to people such as Aquino.

In contrast, Myatt’s life has been one of practical adventure, of practical involvement, of practical going to extremes, both “Light and Dark”; of real danger; of creating a very practical system, a Way, which works and which is devoid of mystification; of taking our conscious and esoteric understanding into new realms.

Can we talk about the origin of the term the Order of Nine Angles? Was that taken from another, pre-existing, American based, group, as some people have surmised and claimed?

Not to my knowledge. According to my sources, the term was taken from a medieval alchemical manuscript, written in Arabic, and entitled Al-Kitab al-Aflak. What many of those involved with esoteric matters outside the ONA do not know is that many of the Arab alchemists, from whom many of the Western alchemists learned their trade or gained their knowledge from, considered there were nine emanations, or angles, and that there were different forms of Time – azal and dhar and zamal – for example. Myatt studied such matters, and developed, extended, these ideas, and gave them a modern slant. Hence causal, acausal, nine angles, and so on.

But heck, I have now given away another secret or two!

Are you then saying that Myatt is Anton Long?

To paraphrase someone else, I did not say anything then, and I am not saying anything now. Or, as someone else, in a similar Time and Space, also said – The truth points to itself. To paraphrase Julie Wright, we all must make our own assessment of the man, based on what we know, what we might find, what we believe, or based on our own prejudice and pre-existing opinions. But I will just add that if we do seek, we must expect him to have manufactured various leads, or scattered various pieces of information around, to tease, to divert, to lead astray, and perchance to lead, finally, to the truth, whatever that is. Along the way there may be laughter, or perplexity, or more prejudice – or maybe, for a few, a genuine insight leading them to discover more about themselves, and this world, and the Cosmos itself, and thus emerge as fully-fledged human individuals who have the insight, the ability, to be truly free. Which is one of the primary aims of genuine esoteric Orders. Q.E.D., as they say.

Richard Stirling
April, 117 yf
(Updated April 119 yf)

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